I was involved with Call Computer at that time. Really spending lots of time hacking in programs I've written to solve complicated filter design problems. The last thing on my mind was the phone company and it's forbidden secrets.

Somehow I let Adam talk me into seeing him, provided he came up to where I lived. He agreed to drive up from LA.. to meet me. At that time, I was living in Mt. View on Montecito Ave in a sleazy apartment complex studio apartment.

Adam also brought up Dave, who also was interested in the phone company but was also more interested in Computers, and had lots of interesting discussions on computers with Dave. Adam had figured how to get into Southern Pacific's internal phone system, which linked just about every city in the South West with their OWN private links. For those wondering, Southern Pacific soon offered their OWN long distance service which eventually became known as SPRINT a few "Buyouts" later... :-)

Adam had also gotten into Cosmos and was eager to use my Acoustical Coupler modem and ASR-33 teletype. This was normally my link to Call Computer and the Arpa Net. At that time, the ARPA net was a "Gentleman's System" or one that allowed access into each other's computer without passwords. It was mostly used by the Academic, Military, and Scientific Community, where research was being done. I often got on to run MACSYMA to help me with my calculus homework. It saved me a lot of time.

When Adam learned I had a modem, he immediately started spieling about COSMOS. He had gotten the access information from one of his dumpster dives or bullshit sessions with telco engineers. He also learned the importance of COSMOS and in order to access it, he HAD to tell me.

I really didn't want to know this "Forbidden" information but is practically shoved down my throat. I was really not liking the idea of having Adam dial up a LA.. number to "Modify" someone's phone service, especially from MY phone line, but before I could stop him, he was already connected.

Cosmos was a terminal interface with equipment that could do things like change someone's phone number, service options, and no doubt do a lot of other things the phone company would NOT have outside people have the capability to do.

By Sunday, Adam and Dave finally left, and I shrugged off the weekend as a rather interesting one, because Dave was telling me all about this interesting computer language called APL. I went back to my programming work, which was a BASIC program that would help me design filter circuits for some contracting work I had to do.

In the meantime, Adam drove back to LA, but during his first visit, I was somewhat careful and not that willing to part with much information.

My next encounter with Adam was in early April in 1974, where he took a bus from LA to visit me, but we had worked out an arrangement where I drove him to FineGold Ranch near Fresno. Adam at this point was in his Senior year of high school and FineGold ranch was a private high school set in a ranch style with cattle, and other farm like lifestyle. This was on a Friday, so we stayed as guests through the weekend.

During that time, Adam had obtained a blue box and was using it on the school's business phone. I had brought a portable terminal with me which had a built-in modem and we logged into a number of computers, including Call Computer, where I did some of my computer work while I was there. We had to be somewhat discreet about the use of the phone of course.

After that, I go down to LA to visit Adam's friend Dave for a weekend which was when we pulled the White House Toilet Paper Prank.

Soon after that, Adam comes up one more time to visit me, and by that time, I got to know him better, but was still not happy with the carelessness he exhibited with his knowledge. This time he brought up his blue box, but it wasn't working right. It was out of tune, and he talked me into tuning it up, much to my regret.

So, during that time, every Wednesday, at Menlo Park was the Peoples Computer Company, a small non-profit group of independent educators in a small storefront on Menalto Rd. Across the street I met this dude that makes electric vehicles and on many occasions found really interesting.

PCC (people's Computer Company) had a PDP-8, running EduBasic, and had tours of children from the local schools play games and learn about computers from various field trips.

Every Wednesday, they had Pot Luck Dinners, where I met Gordon French, Steve Wozniak, Steve Jobs, and a host of other computer hackers and professionals. At that time, I had actually gotten a job working at Call Computer, which was using a BTI-2000, running on a modified HP-2000, but running their own software, which was BASIC.

I took Adam to one of these POT LUCK dinners where Adam tried the blue box from the pay phone. As I had walked to a small food market several doors down, Adam flagged me and he had Dave on the line from LA, and shoved the phone in my face and said "Talk to Dave". I did, and wasn't that concerned about the legality of the call at that time. It turned out that Adam was paid some money by the FBI to come up and visit me to learn if I was still into blue boxing.

When it was evident that I wasn't into it anymore, Adam, under direction of the FBI, did everything in his power to get back my interest in blue boxing by telling me about new codes that were discovered and always bringing up the subject. Adam then slipped out to call the FBI on several occasions. This was learned many years later, after I had filed for my FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) FBI records.

At the PCC every Wednesday, we had a lot of renegade computer users, all interested in pursuing interest in computers, and several trips to Xerox PARC were arranged where I met Tovar and a few others from PARC. This was about 5 years BEFORE Jobs visited Xerox Parc where he got the idea for the Mac Operating system.

Xerox PARC has this really cool mouse driven computer, running on 4 MB "Platters", running a variety of really innovative software like "Small Talk", and "APL", all were fascinating and very useful for an electrical engineer like me for calculating circuit problems.

Woz, working for HP at the time, was not making blue boxes anymore, but had just obtained samples of a Video Display chip at the time, and was designing circuits for his TV Terminal. I had introduced him to Alex Kamradt of Call Computer, where Woz was working on a TV Terminal to sell to Call Computer's customers.

My tenure at Call Computer was soon over, as Les Vogal a high school whiz kid took over my job as System Admin., helping Alex write "Manager" a database manager program. At that time, I had landed a job at KSJO as Chief Engineer.

After Adam returned back to LA, sometime in 1974, I was arrested again. Being very surprised at being arrested, I eventually learned why. It was Adam's work and visits to me that got enough evidence to arrest me and "revoke" my probation. The FBI had placed a tap on the Menalto pay phone outside of PCC (under direction of Adam), and when Adam had shoved the phone in my face asking me to talk with Dave, they had my voice as if I had made the call.

Later on, I had learned that Adam had also entrapped several other people who wouldn't have blue boxed had Adam not approached them.

Between my initial arrest and my eventual incarceration at Lompoc Fed prison camp, the PCC Pot Luck Dinners eventually evolved into the Home Brew Computer Club.

During that time, Intel came out with the 4040, and the 8080, and Bob Marsh and friends who also showed up for the Pot Luck Dinners had designed the SOL, as well as MITS from New Mexico put out the Altair 880 computer kit.

6 months later (1974/1975), the first Computer Store opened up in Mt. View. It was the coldest day on record and it snowed in Mt. View for the first time in history. The store sold old ASR-33 teletypes, parts, tape readers, Altairs, and also Cromenco was sold. Woz had also made a deal with the store manager to stock 15 APPLE I computers, after he did a killer demo at the Home Brew Computer Club.

I never saw Adam ever again from that point on, except a few years later, in 1980 or 1981 at the Apple Computer trade show in Anaheim, someone reported seeing him at that trade show. I never encountered him again.